Interview with Cathy Berx, Governor of Antwerp: “Give downstream countries and regions an advisory role in major permit applications.”

In her keynote address, Cathy Berx said the following, amongst other things: “All policy and government action should start with a clear understanding of the water balance and, as such, with an objective assessment of the situation. Only then are evidence-based decisions possible. It’s also crucial for governance to be organised very well: that timely warnings are given, that there is a uniform picture and that administrators consult each other. A roadmap outlines what these consultations should entail and how choices are assessed.”

Cathy Berx, governor of the Flemish province of Antwerp (Photo: Eelkje Colmjon, Eelk.nl)

Could you explain how water management governance is organised in Flanders? Which choices have to be made and are they accepted by all the parties concerned? How does this work in practice?

Cathy Berx: “In Flanders, we use different management levels to coordinate droughts. Information sharing and advice are determined by the level applicable at a particular time. These agreements are set out in the road map on the coordination of water scarcity and drought (draaiboek Coördinatie waterschaarste en droogte), which is publicly available on the website of the Integrated Coordination Committee on Integrated Water Policy (CIW).

There are four consultation forums: the Drought Advisory Group, the Provincial Drought Consultation, the Drought Committee and the Crisiscel (‘Crisis Cell’). The image below uses colour codes to show which consultation forum is active at which management level. The sequence of consultations is also determined by the management level; frequency varies from monthly to weekly. It has also clearly been set out when and by which party scaling up or down is possible.

The measures to be taken are determined on the basis of the VRAG: the Flemish reactive assessment framework for priority water use (Vlaams Reactief Afwegingskader voor Prioritair Watergebruik).  Generally speaking, a specific cascade of measures applies, based on a general cost-benefit analysis. It forms the basis of the VRAG. The example opposite shows the cascade established for measures on the Albert Canal.

As the governor of the province of Antwerp, I lead the provincial drought consultation, a role that logically aligns with my responsibilities in safety, public health and emergency planning. All these issues are also influenced by water quality and quantity. The importance of water for the foundation of our society cannot be overstated.

The supply of water via the Albert Canal serves significant socio-economic interests. Does the Flemish governance model help prevent potential water-use-related tensions and conflicts? If so, could you give an example?

“I’d like to refer again to the cascade of measures mentioned above. It is clearly stipulated that drinking water extraction must be avoided as much as possible and that measures that primarily impact shipping must always be taken first. To date, measures have never gone beyond the imposition of restrictions on recreational boating.

How is this administrative change an improvement compared to the ‘old situation’, before the Flemish reactive assessment framework for priority water use? Is Flanders in a better position to cope with prolonged periods of drought now? Would you also recommend this approach to other countries and regions; the Meuse river basin, for example? 

“Decisions are much more scientific and data-based now, which – of course – contributes to constructive discussions. Also, clear communication takes place about the measures expected, so they can be anticipated as much as possible in advance.

Given the changing climate, the expectation is that we will increasingly be confronted with prolonged, more intense droughts. It is also likely that water levels in rivers like the Meuse will be low more often and for longer periods of time. Flanders relies entirely on Meuse water from France and Wallonia to supply water for the Albert Canal. Approximately 90% of Dutch Meuse water comes from neighbouring countries, including Germany.

The Meuse Discharge Treaty has been regulating the distribution of Meuse water between the Netherlands and Flanders since 1995. During periods of water scarcity, this treaty serves as a guideline for the balanced distribution of available water between socio-economic use in both countries and the needs of the Meuse itself. Cooperation between Flanders and the Netherlands is based on mutual trust and respect for each other’s interests.

Despite the interdependencies, no broader international agreements have been reached on the use and distribution of Meuse water in the Meuse river basin; for example with Wallonia, France or Germany.

Would you like a treaty of this nature to be in place at a broader international level? Why haven’t these agreements been made yet? Would you like to see a change in this situation?

“Of course, it would be beneficial to reach good agreements at an international level. However, as a downstream region, we don’t have the strongest negotiating position. So, a more coordinating and regulatory role for Europe would help.”

Persistently-low river flows are significantly increasing pressure for access to to scarce water. A careful weighing up of various interests is necessary. For example, drinking water, industry, shipping, energy production, cooling, agriculture, recreation and nature. This could lead to tension and conflict, both between users and between countries within the Meuse river basin.

What is your view on this? Do you share these concerns? Given Flanders’ dependence on other regions and countries for a sufficient supply of Meuse water, do you think it is important for an international governance model to be developed to coordinate water use and allocation internationally?

During droughts, we coordinate intensively with neighbouring regions. By doing this, we know what to expect and which efforts are needed to minimise water use with minimal impact. So, this coordination is effective at an operational level. However, given the expected climate extremes, it is crucial to strengthen this cooperation further.

Would a governance model like the one developed in Flanders work? Or would a different governance arrangement be more appropriate in an international framework?

“The principles of the VRAG could indeed form a basis for a European assessment framework.”

In your keynote address at the National Delta Congress, you mentioned the Flemish Drought Commission, amongst other things. The Netherlands has a similar commission. Would you consider establishing a joint Drought Commission for all the countries in the Meuse river basin?

“That would be a good idea in principle, but we currently lack the mandate to develop it. For example, the International Meuse Commission does not have the authority to initiate a development of this nature.”

What could be done to make sure this international commission is created? Which officials could make it happen? There does not seem to be a great deal of interest among the countries in question. Or perhaps the situation is not urgent enough yet for the need for this commission to be recognised? What do you think?  

“An initiative of this nature should be discussed at a high political level. For example, at European level or in a ministerial meeting. Good agreements make good friends and, ideally, this discussion would happen before we are confronted with even bigger water crises.”

You also discussed international cooperation in your keynote address. Cooperation between Flanders and the Netherlands is continuing to improve; it would be good to expand it to Wallonia, France and Germany. It is interesting, for example, that Flanders shares applications for wastewater discharge permits that could impact Dutch water quality with Rijkswaterstaat (the Dutch water manager), to safeguard Dutch interests.

It would be ideal if the relevant Walloon and French authorities could share applications for wastewater discharge permits with Flanders and the Netherlands for consultation purposes. What do you think and what would need to be done to make it happen?

Could it be an option to give downstream countries and regions an advisory role in major permit applications? This would have significant added value given the crucial role of the Meuse as a source of drinking water. We must maximise our efforts to protect it. Perhaps the time has come for a new quote: ‘It’s an illusion that dilution is the solution for pollution. Protection is the key to water quality.’”


Text: Thessa Lageman, Onder Woorden

Translation: KERN Rotterdam

This interview is published in the RIWA Annual Report 2024 The Meuse

Interview Peter van Baalen, Professor of Information Management and Digital Organisation at the University of Amsterdam: “Technology isn’t the solution”

“Well, that’s a huge problem,” Peter van Baalen thought as he read the previous RIWA-Meuse annual report. As a Professor of Information Management and Digital Organisation at the University of Amsterdam’s Faculty of Economics and Business, his field of expertise is not water but the most effective way to share knowledge and information. However, from his home in Maassluis, he can see the Nieuwe Waterweg and the water in his taps at home come from the Meuse.

Not first and foremost

Van Baalen says that he was “a little shocked” by the interviews in the previous report. He was surprised by the lack of transparency and cooperation between parties and countries. For example, the fact that the objectives of the WFD are consistently not being met and will not be met in 2027 either. “Especially when you consider that clean drinking water is our most basic necessity. How can we be lagging behind so much? Why are we struggling to prioritise water quality?”

Van Baalen believes that many people will not know how important the Meuse is as a source of drinking water. “We know the Meuse is used for shipping and that it floods. What’s less well-known is that seven million households depend on it for their drinking water. Once we realise that, I think we’ll start looking at it differently.”

Responsibility

The previous report said that water-quality policy is basically sound – sound guidelines and laws are in place, both at European and national level and the implementing organisations usually act in good faith and and are competent – but that implementation and, as such practice, often leaves much to be desired. “A clear governance structure is absent,” Van Baalen says, referring to the way in which policy is managed, implemented and monitored. “Who is overseeing the whole, the objectives and enforcement? Who is taking responsibility for solving the problem: the poor water quality?”

Van Baalen mentions the wide range of organisations involved: the drinking water companies, water boards, central and local government, environmental services, knowledge institutes and associations – and the fact that they are all responsible for different things. “That worries me. They’re the reason for many of the problems.” Because a lack of clarity also makes it difficult to improve water quality and resolve any tensions or conflicts, he explains.

From fragmented information to a platform

In short, information is very fragmented. For example, about water quality, the many substances that end up in the water, discharge permits, companies in the area and also hydrological data and information about the consequences of climate change. All this information is held in different places, in different programs and is often either not shared or only minimally. Improving this could help improve water quality and water management.

But how can public organisations, knowledge institutes and private parties achieve knowledge, data and information sharing of this nature? This complex question was put to the Professor of Information Management and Digital Organisation as well. Van Baalen thinks it would be a good idea to create a central database or platform and create a third party for this purpose. “Information exchange between organisations is always very difficult,” he says. “Uniform standards and protocols need to be developed. A key issue always is: who adapts to who? However, the willingness to exchange information is even more important.”

Peter van Baalen, Professor of Information Management and Digital Organisation at the University of Amsterdam (Photo: Eelkje Colmjon, Eelk.nl)

Water puzzle

Many companies are very reluctant to share information and will wonder how it would be shared and with whom, Van Baalen says. “Information like this is very sensitive.” He experienced this for himself, for example, when researching the development of standards and agreements on data sharing for the container industry. However, in other research, he has noticed that parties are often willing to share knowledge but are unaware of any demand for it.

Van Baalen is also aware of the risk of information overload: which can happen when organisations send and download all sorts of information. So, it is important to be clear about exactly which information is needed from which party. He summarises this as: “Knowing exactly what the water puzzle is.” In this context, he cites the fact that Meuse water is used not just for drinking water production but also by other sectors: industry, shipping, energy generation, cooling, agriculture, recreation and nature.

Not a technical issue

Van Baalen believes that information sharing is perhaps the most difficult conversation to have within a governance structure. “But once you’ve overcome these hurdles, smart, AI-based technologies can be very helpful, of course.”

However, he does not see effective information sharing as a technical issue first and foremost. “It’s mainly about getting cooperation off to a good start, the agreements you make. The role of technology is relevant but always exists in a social, economic and political context. And that determines how technology will be used.” He adds to this: “Technology enables you to automate and monitor a great deal. And significant improvements can be made. But that’s not the solution. The solution really does lie in the relationships within the governance structure.”

Peer collaboration

As regards the hackathon the police organised to identify the biggest water polluters (see the interview with Amir Niknam), Van Baalen says: “A hackathon about what you can do with the information you have is a very good idea, but it’s important to view all the stakeholders as rights holders. Of course, I completely agree with the detection of water contamination and the tackling of environmental crime. But I don’t think you should criminalise other parties, like industry and farmers, by labelling them as polluters. They definitely won’t be motivated to share knowledge and collaborate if you do.”

Van Baalen believes the best governance structure or approach in this situation – a river basin – is a cooperation-based peer governance structure. “I don’t think a strict enforcement policy and a heavy-handed sanctions policy is the right approach. We need industry, some farmers and other water users. If it’s clear what everyone’s interests are, we can take joint responsibility for them. This may sound naive, but based on my experience with governance and knowledge sharing, this works best.”

Limit situation

Van Baalen explains that each cooperating party should clarify the so-called ‘limit situation’: in which situation is my position at threat? “What does the minimum water quality or quantity need to be? This then has to be recognised by the various parties. I understand that the drinking water companies reach their limit in the event of low water. The concentration of harmful substances is very high at times like this.” In the previous annual report, Van Baalen read that the parties involved in the Danube River Basin had been successful in making good agreements. “I’m very curious how they managed to do that.”

Van Baalen refers to the situation in which drinking water companies stop abstracting water from the river when excessively high concentrations of a harmful substance are measured; this is called an ‘abstraction stop’. “A kind of self-regulation takes place. When industry participates in the governance structure, they all share responsibility. Now, just one party is sanctioned.”

Go all out

The Meuse flows through other countries too, of course. “Yes, that makes it even more complex,” Van Baalen says. “It’s about making companies and organisations share responsibility for clean drinking water. That includes the people who live alongside the Meuse in France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Take me, for example – I benefit from good water quality too.”

Finally, referring to the current water-quality issues, which Van Baalen read about in the previous annual report, the professor says: “It’s an absolute scandal that politicians aren’t prioritising the collective, societal interest. They have to solve this issue but are choosing the interests of their party and siding with businesses or farmers. It’s very bad news. This is political failure and has significant consequences. The slogan ‘Go all out to improve water quality’ on the cover of the 2023 report is no exaggeration. This really does need to be put higher up on the agenda.”


Text: Thessa Lageman, Onder Woorden

Translation: KERN Rotterdam

This interview is published in the RIWA Annual Report 2024 The Meuse